Dec. 24, 2022
Suzanne Culberg - Setting (and upholding) boundaries in business
Are you a female entrepreneur who feels your clients take advantage of you? Or are you constantly saying yes, when someone asks to “pick” your brain?
This weekend on the Wellness and Wealth podcast, Suzanne Culberg addresses how overgiving directly results from your ability to create and implement boundaries. She’ll also share how boundary setting is the kindest form of self-care.
In this episode, Suzanne Culberg answers the following questions:
- What does having boundaries mean?
- Where does adding value end and giving away too much for free begin?
- How does one set boundaries around getting paid what they are worth on time?
- What signs a female entrepreneur has issues setting boundaries?
Guest Offer: Weekly Newsletter - before you think *yawn* my emails rock, unique content not shared anywhere else, and special offers! I love my list - my favorite part of my business.
Guest Link:https://www.suzanneculberg.com/newsletter/
Connect with Wendy Manganaro:
Connect with Wendy Manganaro:
Transcript
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Hi everyone.
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My name's Wendy Manganaro and I am the Host of the Wellness and Wealth podcast.
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I'm so happy to have you find us.
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And if you could take a moment and hit that subscribe button, I'd really appreciate it.
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This is the podcast where we believe when you show up better for yourself as a woman business owner, you show up better for your business.
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So sit back, relax.
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And learn from the practical to the woo-hoo, how to best take care of you.
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Have a great day.
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Stay blessed.
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And leave a review when you're done listening to the show, thanks so much.
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Hi everyone, welcome back and please excuse me, this episode, my voice seems to be going, so we're gonna do the best we can through this.
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Today our topic is setting and upholding boundaries in business with Suzanne Colberg.
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I'm gonna read her bio and then we'll get right into it.
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suzanne Colberg is an international mindset coach, speaker, and author who helps over givers and people pleasers learn to say no in a way that feels good through her signature online program, YW8.
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Suzanne helps women break the cycle of putting themselves last instead of build the confidence to set boundaries.
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Suzanne is known by her clients as the velvet hammer, as she's equal parts loving and no bs.
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She lives in Sydney with her husband and two young children.
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So welcome, Suzanne.
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Thanks for being here today.
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Thank you so much for having me, Wendy.
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We chatted the other day and I was like, we've gotta book this show right away.
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So I was so excited about this.
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I always love talking about boundaries.
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I think that every business owner should learn what they are, how they help your self care and your confidence.
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And, women in, in general a lot of times I think lack boundaries.
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I do have a starting question, what does boundaries mean to you?
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I love how you spoke about self-care and boundaries and what came to mind is in Brene Brown's early work when people were like, we wanna talk about perfectionism.
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And she's like, I talk about shame.
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And they're like, oh, no, no, no.
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Perfectionism.
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And I think, boundaries are the utmost self care and Brene Brown says, clear is kind.
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So when our boundaries are clear, it's a kindness not only to ourselves, but to our clients because then they know what is I hesitate to use the word allowed, but what is acceptable and what isn't acceptable, like ways to contact us, times that we will respond, all these sort of things, because when people don't know, They're confused and we can sometimes think, oh, we've got a needy client, or, this person is not coachable, or whatever term we like to put on when we're having a hard moment, I know I've been there, but often it's, we haven't been clear in our boundaries, and so the definition of boundaries is.
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Not a fence, it's not keeping people out.
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It's like what is acceptable and what isn't acceptable and what the consequences will be.
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But not as in you need to change or you need to do this, but when this happens, this is how I will respond.
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And I think it, it's the utmost self-care and safety and clarity for an individual
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I love that and one of the things I think that a lot of business owners, including myself, and we had discussed this when we chatted originally, was that especially new in business, I'd say customers don't have boundaries because we don't set them with our customers from the beginning.
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And I had talked about one if you get a proposal from me one of my first paragraphs is how you can contact me and when you can contact me.
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And I had to learn that through the years of calls on the weekends and there's no social media emergency folks.
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I'm just gonna tell you, there have been clients I've had in the past who think that's the case and there really is not.
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And I think that's what we teach others is what really is an emergency.
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And what is not.
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Hundred percent and it's what you'll allow will continue.
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So I think often in the moment when we are stressed and we are looking for co-regulation, we can be reaching out to our coach or our social media manager or someone else saying this is an emergency.
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Cuz in the moment to us it feels like it but as you said, it really isn't.
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And it's a matter of looking at what's happening underneath.
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And I'm currently redoing my website and the website person I'm working with, when I got the contract from them, I just felt this big sigh of relief because the very first paragraph, similar to what you said that you were sending out was like, this is how you can contact me and this is how you like, do not contact me this way.
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Which I loved.
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And also the hours and also because I'm in Australia and they're in.
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As I say, they were in Germany, but they've moved now Denmark maybe.
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But like obviously there's a massive time difference so it's negotiating and working that so that we can both get the most from the relationship.
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Like for me personally, I don't like to be DMed.
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Like ever from friends, sending me a meme or something, a hundred percent, but I don't conduct my business via dm, so I like email, or fill my client's Voxer like voice message all the way.
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But, I'm not a DM person.
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Personally, it's not my jam.
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But people don't know that.
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And often if you DM a page and you don't hear back, because that person isn't actively monitoring that.
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So a lot of pages will have send me an email instead, or sending up on autoresponder, directing the people.
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And I think we have poor boundaries, especially in the beginning of business because we want clients, so We're everywhere.
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And then we don't trust that if we have a message saying, actually I don't respond to this, please email instead that they will make the effort to do that.
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But if we are overly accommodating on the onboarding and then we aren't overly accommodating in the coaching container, that's, that is a mismatch on our end.
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Because one of my pet peeves is people who do everything to get you in and then forget you once they've got your dollars.
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Which can be really common.
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So how did you learn about boundaries?
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Because usually somebody with good boundaries has a process of getting there, I know for me it's been a progressive journey, for lack of a better word, to get there.
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So what was your journey?
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I was the world's biggest doormat.
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I had the worst boundaries ever.
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People pleaser all the things, responding in all the ways and then getting resentful, gonna o admit that, resentful of my clients sometimes for being needy.
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And it was like, hang on, hold up.
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Where am I creating this or co-creating this?
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Where am I being overly responsible?
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And in the beginning of my business, as many of us do, we have more time because we have less clients.
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And then sometimes when we over-deliver, To the beginning people, we set a precedent or an expectation, and then as we get busy, it looks to them like we're doing less, but we're actually looking like we're doing what we promised.
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So even now, where I have times, we all have times where we have lulls in our business.
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My temptation is to overdeliver or to overgive, and I have to reign myself back in and have a look at where am I not doing my own work that I'm wanting to go and do extra for others, because that is setting something up.
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So in the very beginning of my business, I was active in all the Facebook groups, because we were taught that as a technique and I was giving value and commenting on posts and attending other people's webinars and being the, the biggest cheerleader.
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Often I was the DM person, like people would ask a question, I'd answer and I'd ask a question, and it actually went beyond a conversation about potential coaching into coaching in the dms.
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And doing discovery calls, and then, some free sessions.
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And, basically in hindsight I'd be like, of course people didn't pay you, Suzanne, they didn't need to.
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You did it all for free.
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And I'm not saying don't be generous and don't be of service and don't give value, but be really clear in yourself.
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Where does it end?
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And the coaching container begin.
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So like a little thing I say to myself, I create for free, I do lots of podcast interviews.
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I, send a weekly newsletter.
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I post heaps on socials, like I create for free, but I curate as in when people start asking questions or wanting to pick my brain or something, that's when it's sure, here's the link.
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So I don't do a whole lot of back and forth discussions, because I find that there's a different kind of discussion about, hey, like I wanna work with you versus, I just wanna pick your brain and I think, sometimes early on too, when I had poor boundaries, I would miss buying signs.
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Somebody would send me a message and go, I heard about your program.
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Instead of saying, awesome, let's schedule a call, or, something like that.
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I'd just send them some blogs or I'd send them some more information.
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So sometimes we think we're being clear.
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But we are really not.
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So I did all the things.
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I was always attached to my phone, notifications all the time, and yeah, it got really exhausting.
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And it was actually my children who picked me up on it.
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And it was commenting like, oh, I think my son said to me one day, I want you to watch me do this, but you're always on your phone or something.
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And I was like, oh yeah, no, this isn't good.
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And to that point, and I talk about this a lot is most of us build a business so that we can have the life we want.
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And somehow in the course of building a new business, especially.
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it becomes that we have this new chain we're still not paying attention to what we said we wanted when we started this, and not that we're not gonna have busier times than our business that happens, if you launch something and, but there shouldn't be this 24 7
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There's that quote says, entrepreneurs are the only ones who give up the 40 hour work week, like the nine to five to work 80 hours.
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Exactly.
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And I don't know many entrepreneurs who don't go through that a little bit.
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And that goes to that hustle mindset that I often talk about that will burn you out faster than anything else.
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Because you cannot, you can't keep up a continued sprint.
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I have a question, Denise Duffield has a new book out that she just wrote, but one of the things she says is this whole idea of picking your brain.
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And how that actually diminishes your ability to get clients because they're so busy picking your brain for women who out there, because I've had this happen to me where I've actually unlinked to those people cuz they were picking my brain that much and I was like, I'm done with this.
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I've had some interesting phone calls before where they were picking my brain to see if the person they hired was telling them the right thing.
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And I was like, yeah, I don't think that's the way this kind of goes, but saying that though, for those women who feel like this need to be able to say yes, because they're going to show their expertise cuz they're new in business what is that line What do you see that line where it goes over picking your brain?
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Because they're always gonna want something free or that creation because you, you just said you do a lot of creation and Yes.
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And I dunno if all women understand what the difference is between that.
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That's a great question.
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So I guess it comes down to business model, how your business model works.
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So say for example, I run a lot of masterclass in my business, that are free and they go usually about an hour.
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I deliberately don't give a time because, I go for as long as there's questions and stuff, but in that time, if people come along and they ask stuff, I'll answer whatever.
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But then when that time is finished, then it's a let's book a paid call or something like that.
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Or if you when you sit down and look at your work week, you're like, this week I have two hours to give and you might wanna do another thing I do in my business is I call them Zoom cuppers.
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So if you're on my newsletter list, once a month I open up three slots and I send it out.
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I'm like, here's the slots book in.
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Please, if you've booked in the last six months, don't take them and you can just ask me whatever.
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And we jump on Zoom and we talk.
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That's like a way that I give back.
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And then invariably, there's always the people who are like, I missed out, or can you tell me?
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Or whatever.
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And that's when it's paid.
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So your giving and your boundaries for giving is up to you and you get to choose, but you need to protect that.
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And there's always gonna be people who are like, oh, I missed out, or, the times don't suit me, or whatever.
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If you wanna work with me in the times that suit me, said with absolute.
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that's when you pay.
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Other than that, just keep looking each month and you know your time will come
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And I am curious because I have a belief system that there is always people and I wish them no ill will.
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That will always look for the free.
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They are also people who usually struggle in their business.
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This is my experience and there are those who will always step up.
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So in the idea, I like the idea of your creation because you can't over give there because there's people who are never, no matter what you write or don't write, They are gonna try to utilize it.
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That's when I get the funny ones where they're like, so I read that article six weeks ago and I can't find it.
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And I'm trying, and there's those type of people and that's okay.
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There on your newsletter.
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They're not in the same mindset frame as you.
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But then there's those who appreciate your free stuff, but they are gonna want to book because that's where their mindset is too.
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And so I like that you're talking about this idea of boundaries, cuz the more that you set, the more you attract those people who are like, yes, I'm ready to buy.
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Because you've already preset the boundaries of what you will and will, won't do.
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So I have another question around this because the other thing is boundaries.
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When it comes to payment, I'd love to hear what you accept as I've had some funny stories with the past business partner about the fact that She would mark up contracts because she knew that the person that she was giving it to was always gonna ask her to bring it down.
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It is not the business model I followed today at all, but at that time I was young and I didn't know any better and, it's so much work to do that, by the way, to guess what the high point is so that you can get what you really want.
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It's not a great way for me to be do business.
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It's, but I'd love to hear what your experience is and setting boundaries on pricing.
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Because that's a big thing for self-care.
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I have been around ringer with pricing.
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So with my program, previously it was a membership and then I remodeled it as a program and it was a monthly.
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Price.
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So people would pay each month as you do in a membership model.
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And then there was often defaults, like that's just part of business.
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Things would default.
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And then I would message the people and kindly ask that they fix it up.
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And then the way my system works, the payment system I have, it doesn't try the three times and then it just defaults.
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As soon as they have a default, they're out.
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So sometimes people would take a week or two to pay, then it would start the month again.
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And then the next month, the same thing would happen.
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And there was one client in particular that when I sat down and did the maths, had six months of the membership for free because of this one to two week every month.
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And when you think about it and you step back, like this was before, I had strong boundaries and I was doing weight loss coaching at the time.
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Now I've rebrandedbut when you look at that from an admin time to send the email to follow up the stuff that goes on in your head, like, am I being unfair?
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And like all that, it wasn't, it was costing me really to have this client.
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So in the end, and it was actually, this was the real beginning of the shift of my business.
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I did a video in the group to everybody, so I wasn't pointing to a person in particular saying it's you.
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Because there was, several and I was saying that, you guys come to me for help with your overgiving and I've realized that this has become overgiving for me.
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I will own my place in this up until now, but from here on going forward.
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If you default, you have 24 hours to fix it up.
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Cause also too, my system sends them an email.
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So me going in to send another email like they're ignoring in that, if you default, you will be removed from the group, in 24 hours and you will be, you're welcome to rejoin at any time at the current rate.
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Cuz the other thing I used to do, speaking of pricing is grandfather pricing.
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And I don't do that anymore because For me, from what I think sustainable because cost of living and the cost of all our expenses increase.
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And then, so I do have an alumni rate, for people who continue to come back.
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But it's alumni rate.
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It's not a grandfathered set price.
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So this person had been with me from the beginning.
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The price was very cheap.
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And anyway, I did the video.
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I tagged everyone.
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I was like shaking and they were like, yep, okay, cool.
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And then, This person defaulted.
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And, I sent them a message as well as the system message, and they said, yes, yes, I'll pay tonight.
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And then the next morning they hadn't paid, so I popped them out of the group and then the DM started coming in.
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And then one of the ones who writes a line hits enter, writes a line hits.
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So, you have all these things and I'd also said in that video that I would not be responding to DM anymore.
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Everything had to come via email and I would respond in, however many business days because I was just really honest and, I said to the person in the dm, this is not acceptable.
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I don't do DMS anymore, as clearly stated, please send this via email.
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And then, I sent them an email, a kindly worded email and, it was hard, Wendy, it was really hard.
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It was like you say you have a safe space and this doesn't feel safe.
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And like all the judgment things that came in the end ended up blocking the person because the messages, the barr of messages and everything.
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But there will be people who have things going on in their life.
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I can have so much compassion for that, but also, what we allow will continue.
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And I'm not a virtual punching bag.
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And since then there's very rarely times like this used to happen with a majority of people, majority of the time because I didn't, and now I very rarely get payment things.
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And you'll realize that when you stop accepting like, oh, it's okay, it's okay.
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And you put things like backup plans of what to do if somebody doesn't pay on time, you stop getting people who don't pay on time because they appreciate you and value your time because you've made it very clear.
00:18:59.402 --> 00:19:07.451
So as far as female entrepreneurs go, I don't know if we're only so self-aware, as the situation we're in sometimes.
00:19:07.451 --> 00:19:22.021
But what are those signs that you see for women business owners who don't necessarily know, they're not setting good boundaries because there's things that it's very clear it's not a good boundary.
00:19:22.027 --> 00:19:26.301
But what are those subtle things that sometimes entrepreneurs do that, that you see?
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Client sessions going over time because often we think, oh, we are giving value or whatever.
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For me personally, I can't stand things going over time cause I've got other things planned, so it's not actually giving value to me.
00:19:41.126 --> 00:19:52.362
Like value to me is you delivering in the time that you said you would So, there's that, there's also really clear communication is great on boundaries, especially if something is going to be late.
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I know often we can freak out and, tend to wanna ostrich or ghost, but to be really clear that, this is taking longer than I thought, or, being clear on the timeline of delivery.
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As I said, I'm in the process of rebranding.
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The person I hired to do my copywriting, what I loved about working with them is, each week or a couple of times, they'd send me an update with where they're going.
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Just a sentence or two.
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So I know.
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Another thing too, they gave me an overall timeline projection.
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This is until first draft.
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This is the time for this.
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So there was a suggested timeline, which we ended up blowing out for a couple of reasons, but it was communicated all along the way.
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Whereas sometimes people have stuff going on and they disappear and we can be really understanding.
00:20:34.977 --> 00:20:38.576
If people are clear, but also clear and honest, not clear.
00:20:38.606 --> 00:20:47.156
And like for me as a participant in groups, one of my pet peeves is when the person goes, let's have an integration week because they haven't got their stuff together.
00:20:47.487 --> 00:20:52.346
Like, be honest, like last year in my program, I ended up having unexpected surgery.
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I went to a doctor surgery on Thursday.
00:20:54.446 --> 00:20:55.826
I had the surgery on Monday.
00:20:56.317 --> 00:20:59.047
I had to change, but I was just really upfront.
00:20:59.362 --> 00:21:02.182
With, this is where we're going and, this is what we're gonna do.
00:21:02.422 --> 00:21:04.132
The same as the last round of my program.
00:21:04.132 --> 00:21:08.307
I actually really realized I didn't nail this, like I could have delivered this better.
00:21:08.547 --> 00:21:12.946
So I was like, I'm going to, put this extra in for anybody who wants it.
00:21:12.946 --> 00:21:13.946
There's no pressure.
00:21:14.297 --> 00:21:19.366
But just being, clear with our communication is a way of having really good boundaries.
00:21:19.817 --> 00:21:27.686
And also when we are doing things like, posting in groups or things like that having that boundary is in how long am I gonna spend in here?
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Because sometimes I know when I was new in business, I'd be like, I'm spending all this time.
00:21:31.586 --> 00:21:36.527
And you are not actually doing productive content producing things that are increasing your business.
00:21:36.826 --> 00:21:41.727
You're cheerleading on others posts, it's nice but there's busy work like surface work.
00:21:41.731 --> 00:21:42.836
And then there's the deep work.
00:21:42.836 --> 00:21:48.876
And often I know as entrepreneurs, the deep work, like, writing our own blogs or doing our own podcast.
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Can be subverted by cheerleading on others, and it's not the same level.
00:21:53.497 --> 00:21:59.067
It's so funny because one of the things I teach when it comes to social media, because this is.
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By far, one of the thing, biggest things I hear is that I hate social media.
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Get on there.
00:22:03.576 --> 00:22:04.807
It's a time suck, blah, blah, blah.
00:22:05.136 --> 00:22:09.436
And I actually have my clients set timers, and have an intention before they go on.
00:22:10.277 --> 00:22:18.303
And then I say, if you've done your intention and the timer hasn't gone off and you wanna scroll or then you wanna comment or then you want, that's fine.
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