Dec. 6, 2023
The Power of a T Profile: Insights from Barry Blauvelt
Have you ever wondered how your communication and collaboration skills can propel your career? Join us for a stimulating conversation with Barry Blauvelt, CEO of Innovera Incorporated, who introduces us to the ingenious concept of a "T profile." This approach marries deep expertise with effective communication and collaboration skills – a winning combination, particularly for women in the healthcare industry. We delve into Barry's groundbreaking study on women, diversity, and leadership in healthcare, revealing a new perspective on self-advocacy and recognition as building blocks for career advancement.
The journey doesn't stop there. We venture into the challenging terrain of women in corporate leadership roles. We confront the specters of self-doubt and lack of sponsorship, and Barry shares powerful personal experiences and examples that underscore the importance of embracing failure. Yes, failure – because we can cultivate long-term success by addressing flaws in a project. We also highlight the crucial role of sponsorship and self-advocacy in climbing the corporate ladder.
Finally, we examine female entrepreneurship, where collaboration and self-care reign supreme. Listen as we dispel the fears and hesitations that prevent women from embracing the power of collaboration. With Barry's insightful advice on building a trusted team and mastering your numbers in business, you'll be well-equipped to pitch confidently to investors and customers. So, if you're ready to rethink your approach to leadership and entrepreneurship, this episode is a must-listen. Be sure to tune in and prepare to be enlightened!
Offer: Guidance on how to develop one's T-profile.
Link: https://www.pharmexec.com/view/upward-mobility-optimizing-your-pharma-t-profile
Connect with Wendy Manganaro:
Connect with Wendy Manganaro:
Chapters
00:00 - The Future of Healthcare
09:19 - Women in Leadership
20:36 - Hedonic Response in Women Entrepreneurs
32:58 - Know Your Numbers in Business
38:20 - Collaboration in Female Entrepreneurship
41:21 - The Importance of Self-Reflection and Collaboration
Transcript
WEBVTT
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Hi everyone.
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My name is Wendy Manganero and I am the host of the Wellness and Wealth podcast.
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I'm so happy to have you find us and if you could take a moment and hit that subscribe button, I'd really appreciate it.
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This is the podcast where we believe when you show up better for yourself as a woman business owner, you show up better for your business.
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So sit back, relax and learn from the practical to the woo-woo.
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How did best take care of you?
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Have a great day, stay blessed and leave a review when you're done listening to the show.
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Thanks so much, Hi everyone.
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Welcome back to another episode.
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Today we are talking about the future of healthcare with Barry Blavile.
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I'm going to read her bio and then we're going to get right into it.
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Barry is the CEO of Innovera Incorporated, one of the top healthcare talent development firms in the world.
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In addition to her and her team creating and delivering functional talent development globally, she is a personal champion of advancing patient and consumer centered healthcare and women and diversity and leadership across all sectors of the healthcare industry.
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Her landmark study health alert women, diversity and leadership in the business of healthcare.
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Then she works over 2000 executive leaders across over 200 firms and organizations that account to two third US healthcare spending.
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She also founded and chairs the extraordinary women advancing healthcare awards in Massachusetts under the auspices of the Commonwealth Institute, aka the woman's edge, and helped to launch these in Nigeria as well.
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She teaches quality measures and healthcare at the graduate level and conducts global policy informing research and teaches or otherwise collaborations with many academic and medical public health affiliations, including John Hopkins, Mass, Brinkham General and other top medical research teaching based hospitals and affiliated universities in the US and around the globe.
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Thanks a lot.
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Thank you so much for coming on the show.
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Thanks, Wendy.
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I'm really interested in our topic today because we're talking about the future of healthcare.
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But we're going to talk to you about something called the T profile, which I actually know a little bit about.
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So I'd love to know from you what is a T profile?
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It was interesting is what I did the health alert, some of the initial interviews with people who had made it to the top, women and men and said it's a secret to your success.
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One of the women said her name was Adil Gulfo.
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She said, oh, develop your T profile.
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That's the advice you would have given young people.
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And I said in any career, in any business or operation, they want to succeed.
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And I said what's a T profile?
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And she said you should go with a T profile.
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And I said hey, I'm okay, I'm not afraid to ask dumb questions.
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Explaining you're a T profile.
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There's nobody you'd learn about it, except a few academics.
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But it was a concept started in the 60s for science and engineering where an engineer or a scientist needs to be able to communicate effectively and collaborate with other functions in order to solve problems, create new products, new processes, et cetera, and really innovate.
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And she said we all have to.
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First of all, like you, think about a T, you've got the stem of the T and that's what the table sits on.
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If you think of T as a table, that's what secures that tabletop and that's your deep expertise, and everybody around that table has their deep expertise and that is critical.
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And then the top of the table is how you cross-communicate and interact.
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And to be effective in that role, you have to take your deep experience and help people to relate to it in a way that helps the project, the common goal, and then likewise they can say but more than that, you have to understand what they do enough to be able to help them be better.
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And so you end up, through cross-functional teamwork or projects of importance to the company, gaining visibility.
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And we are not at the table.
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This is really important.
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It's really essential for your career development and we talk about wellness in the health set.
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It's also critical in terms of your well-being.
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I want to make sure I'm being successful and I'm not just hoping for serendipity.
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And let me back into that Women, I suppose, are men, and this is a generalization.
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Don't forgive me, but there have been many studies, including our own, that bear it out.
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We focus on things.
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So good at what we do.
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Two things happen.
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Number one we assume that's enough.
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We assume that being really good at what we do is going to get us enough recognition that will advance us.
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We'll get on radar screens and people will hear about the good work and they'll want to promote us.
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That's the first mistake.
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So self-advocacy in a good way not braggart way, but in a good way is really critical to that.
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And here's where that T-profile comes in, because you're able to let others know how you are, but more than that, not just impress upon them your deep expertise.
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You're a bit of a biker to that table for that reason, that's a given.
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But rather how can you add value to the project or the team, or to each of them individually even?
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So that becomes really important.
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The second thing is that I did a study of all the Nobel laureates in science and medicine and said where are the women?
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There's so few women that have won any of these awards.
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And I contacted some of them that should have won the award, because their bosses won the awards, and I said come on, you did all the work, why didn't you get the recognition?
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She said there's that T-profile, right?
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The men will take credit for what you want, and you know what they don't want to advance you.
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They need you Supporting that, and so a lot of times you think that you should be recognized and promoted into another opportunity, but you'll be held back and you won't even know because they're gonna be sitting around a table in a room or virtual room and they're gonna be discussing that career opportunity opening and they're not gonna be promoting your name because they don't know you and your own bus or mentor may not be promoting you because they don't want you to go and have to start all over again.
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And that's really true in this work virtual environment.
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It's really tough.
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What you have someone is productive, working virtually, remotely.
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You really don't want to lose that, because trying to bring someone new on board because so much more difficult and it's really interesting to see what we're saying.
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And that was just some of the initial insights I'll share with you about the deep profile.
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But when I heard that from a doubt it really resonated with me and.
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I thought about my own career.
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I was the youngest, highest rising woman, a fighter from a suitable way back when, when I graduated with, it was a Meteorite rise with advisor and then a meteorite rise in another company, because I get a stonewall advisor very early in the career, which just stunned me and I'll share this.
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There was an opening for a position that I should have got and this guy Was relatively need of the group who came from the sales force well, the good old guys, right, but young, who got the job and he had proven himself and he didn't have the expertise and he didn't have the traction and he didn't have the proof in the job.
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But everybody knew I'm unlike because he came to the sales force.
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He was one of that and all the executive know when he could charm anybody to death, except maybe me.
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And when he got that job offer instead of me, I went to my boss.
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I said why did he get that over?
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Why?
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Why didn't you give it to me?
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Why wasn't I even asked if I wanted it?
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When they sit, john, he's married, it has kids and you're single and you got time and he's a little bit older.
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We all know me from the sales force and I'll tell you that was a huge wake up call for me and I think this idea advocacy you don't just self advocate, you have to have a sponsor and that's the other thing that goes along with the profile.
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You've got to have someone.
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When they're in that room discussing who could be considered for that opening, you can ask someone, say I really think we ought to give it to Wendy.
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I know you guys don't know Wendy, but I've been working with many.
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She's been working with me.
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She is terrific.
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Now this is not a mentor, this is a sponsor.
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This is someone who's willing to take their account and say I think she'd be great for this position.
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If you read the article which I'm sure you can give them the link to Wendy that was published in pharmaceutical executive magazine and has gotten a huge recognition.
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When I asked the executives mail and email what advice would you give young people?
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One of those pieces of advice was from a guy called David and he was this young, very bright young guy who was given an opportunity to set up for Novartis Pharmaceutical their oncology business division.
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And this was we weren't sure I was part of Novartis but I work with him as a consultant.
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We weren't sure if they had the pipeline.
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But we think we did and I did the research and found out that they were really on the rise and he had a terrific opportunity here.
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But he himself said I was really scared when they said that I wasn't sure I was ready, but I figured I probably had 70% of the skills they needed leadership skills are transferable and I'd get the rest on the way by doing the job.
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And he said well, I find with women when I eventually, by the way, he wrote to become CEO of Novartis and he said when I, as I rose up and I had opportunities and openings in our fast growing division and everything else, I'd want to bring women in, we had incredibly talented women.
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I had a doctor and they'd say I'm not sure, I have the experience for it.
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And he said I think you can do it and you'll get it along the way, but they just help themselves back.
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And it was interesting that he said that, because I actually heard that from other people too in interviews.
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So at least with the T profile you realize you don't have to be an expert at everything, you just have to have your deep expertise on the rest, you'll get along the way.
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And the rest, beyond your own deep expertise, isn't about more expertise.
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It's about cross functional communication, cross functional collaboration, collective intelligence, connected intelligence and sponsorship.
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To be Fred.
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That's so interesting.
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I was laughing in my head.
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I worked in nonprofits for years and rose and management and when I was in my early 30s I was the youngest director in the state where I am for what I did and similar thing, not because people didn't like me and know me, but it was like good old boys club and the president told me I could not speak to people the way he did.
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I left the company.
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I got a call from a head hugger shortly after that and I was so disgusted and I was so upset by that.
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It wasn't about Pfizer, say, it was about all the companies were like that, and there's still that tendency.
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So I think that it's great that things are changing.
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They may not be changing as much as you think, and that's.
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I've learned so much.
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My eyes have really been open to so much around health alert, but I would have expected more change.
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I would have expected parity at the top.
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I would have expected more openness from both men and women to advance women.
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And sometimes we hear the opposite, which is I feel I don't have enough men now or I don't have, but these aren't the rank and file.
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They're not getting moved up.
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They're not getting the moved up because, again, the women are lacking sponsorship and they feel they shouldn't have to self-advocate.
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They confuse that for being a braggart and that's not true.
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It's about letting people know who are in a position to make decisions, who you are, what you can do, and I'll give you another piece of advice there.
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So, as your listeners think about their careers and think about where they're going and think about what they're enjoying, if you read this article you read the career about another person who her sponsors believed in her so much that they gave her opportunities where she'd really have to stretch.
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And what she realized is that once she had done it once, she could do it again and again and she's now had a digital communications and financial and analytics.
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She started out as a PhD in biologic sciences and research very different pathway, but a meteoric rise again and it's okay to fail.
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I think that's another important thing to say.
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We as well, we have to be perfect.
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We have to do this perfectly.
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The key is it's not working.
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Quickly address it, bring it to you by saying I tried, it's just not working, or I need help.
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I need the help.
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I'm not getting help I need, or I think the project is flawed.
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I think there's a fundamental flaw and nobody in the company wants to see a fail.
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I remember once I was consulting a major company and I was helping them to prepare for launch of this potentially major new product and we have a process called world-class launch, which we take a cross-functional team through and they you know how ready are you and what do we need to do to get ready?
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And they were like, literally, it was imminent, this launch.
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It was now September and they were supposed to have their big launch meeting in November or December or January, I can't remember and they were going to pull all the salespeople from around the USA.
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They had hired Cirque du Soleil to do a show for them.
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This was huge, right, and you have to appreciate that what this particular company sold was the equivalent of a widget, right, you have to sell a lot of widgets to pay for Cirque du Soleil.
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I remember saying wait, what's your forecast?
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What's the size of the market?
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Stepping back to the stuff that I assumed the valuation was there, right, the value of the market was already determined.
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And I said wait, what's your first year forecast?
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And then it was so small.
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I said how can you justify this huge launch when you have a very small forecast?
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I said what's your forecast, so small?
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And then they said we can't make it fast enough.
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We can't make enough that we're underpowered from a manufacturing standpoint.
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Now we're talking bricks of water, now we're talking machinery, we're talking about approvals by the government for manufacturing.
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And I went hey, let's take a breath here.
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What is your capacity and how long will it take to get to the capacity you say the market is worth.
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How long will it take you to get there If we put reships on and triple our manufacturing facilities?
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I said you don't want to put reships on, but even if you did, how long would all of that take?
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I said, conservatively, two to three years.
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I said you do realize you're not ready for launch.
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And they all looked at me and I said why are we proceeding as though we're ready?
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And they said we can't go to them and tell them that it's not going to work, it's going to fail.
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I said, yeah, you do, and if you don't, I will.
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And they looked at me, like here in the headlight, and I said guys, you'll be a hero if you pull the plug now.
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You'll fall on the sword.
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If you don't do it now, and pretty soon after this great event, everybody's going to be saying wear the sails, wear the sails.
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And then this whole thing will unravel.
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So which do you want now?
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Pull the plug.
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And yeah, they're not going to be happy, but it's a heck of a lot better than proceeding.
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And they looked at me and they said can you make the call?
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I said no, you can make the call, but I'll stand by you.
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And so they did it and I said right then and there in the meeting, and I said okay, now we're going to spend the rest of the time talking about how do we back out of this plan and how do we develop a commercial strategy that makes sense.
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And that's what we did and turned out to be absolutely the right thing to do.
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But having said all of that, I think sometimes we're so afraid of not being perfect that we don't bring it to the attention of people who can actually help us soon enough, and that's male and female.
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That's human nature, isn't it?
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And it's so interesting because I did marketing strategies and I was always like this may not be what you think, and it's really hard because companies don't want to hear that they sometimes want to hire the firm that's going to yes them and then they get mad that they don't get the results.
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And then I hear things like I hate marketers.
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I'm like, really, I'm like you do.
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Did you just go with what they said without seeing if it was going to make sense to actually do this?
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And that happens, I think, a lot.
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So we have a lot of listeners who are female entrepreneurs and I'll be curious to get your thoughts on this.
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So I think sometimes, especially when you're new in business, you say yes to a lot because you're afraid of not getting the sale.
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And you think they know better than you.
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And they should.
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But what you have to do is learn from them and listen to that instinct.
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It's what I call the two-year-old question.
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If it just doesn't make sense to you, if you're just not happy with the answers you're getting or you just don't trust, do your research, do your homework and if it's not connecting for you, if it's just not making sense, choose the status quo, challenge the assumption that people are making and probably the biggest success stories.
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I've been able to really think things global transformations in healthcare.
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I've started with that dumb question, that two-year-old question of why don't we know why young women in all over the world who are not white are getting breast cancer at a rate four times more than Americans and European women or white women, as it turned out, it was ethnicity.
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And when I challenged everybody about the kinds of research that were being done and the kind of guidelines being said and I said guys, you're basing this all on white Western women who are willing to volunteer for clinical research and all have her two positive forms of breast cancer and there's 70% of the world out there that are not going to get any benefit from it.
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The medicines that are being developed for women for breast cancer.
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And everybody was like what?
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We can get into a whole other conversation about that too, because I'm sure another crazy statistic about healthcare and women.
00:18:16.348 --> 00:18:27.550
But your point is right, which is, if just something doesn't feel right or if it's an assumption and it's a big assumption when I just described what you just described if it's a really big assumption, ask for facts.
00:18:27.550 --> 00:18:29.676
I have become very data-driven.
00:18:29.676 --> 00:18:33.657
I've always been data-driven, but I'm also considered, like you, marketing.
00:18:33.657 --> 00:18:35.162
People are, by nature, innovative.
00:18:35.162 --> 00:18:36.224
We like to be creative.
00:18:36.224 --> 00:18:37.166
That's what drives us.
00:18:37.166 --> 00:18:44.731
We like to create, we like to make things come alive, make things happen really and through your organization, of course.
00:18:44.731 --> 00:18:48.877
But people are going to tell you things and then you'll have to check assumptions.
00:18:48.877 --> 00:18:50.443
You have to say is that a fact or a subject?
00:18:50.443 --> 00:18:53.253
It's a fact, it can be the facts, but it's an assumption.
00:18:53.253 --> 00:18:55.782
How sensitive is that assumption?
00:18:55.782 --> 00:19:11.115
And we need to go test that before we build strategy on it, because if we're wrong about that, we're really wrong and it's worth just holding back a little bit and figuring out how can I get enough traction on this so that I have confidence.
00:19:11.255 --> 00:19:18.055
I do a lot of policy-implemented research and, as from COVID, policy actually precedes facts.
00:19:18.055 --> 00:19:26.542
Sometimes we have to set policy, like people should wear masks and we should try to get vaccines, and we want to keep six different distances.
00:19:26.542 --> 00:19:30.213
Some of that had good facts and some of it was very great.
00:19:30.213 --> 00:19:34.587
But logic says keep your distance and work as bright.
00:19:34.587 --> 00:19:35.590
It's just good logic.
00:19:35.590 --> 00:19:44.342
And yes, there's good data in some places, but not necessarily everywhere or not necessarily with the mask you buy and you wear, etc.
00:19:44.342 --> 00:19:57.080
And so we have to really sometimes with policy, we have to make decisions and form by experience, decisions and form by logic, even in absence of data, but we try to get as much data as we can.
00:19:57.080 --> 00:20:13.892
When you do that, you can actually interview 15 to 25 people and if you start hearing the same thing again and again, you can say I feel pretty confident that the majority think this fine, but if it still doesn't resonate with you, don't do it, don't accept it.
00:20:14.320 --> 00:20:21.067
Absolutely, and I want to talk about something that you mentioned on the topic description, because I think it goes along with this.
00:20:21.067 --> 00:20:26.191
What we're talking about is how do female entrepreneurs know if they're falling into the hedonism response?
00:20:26.191 --> 00:20:27.336
What is that?
00:20:27.336 --> 00:20:31.414
And then what are the warning signs that women are doing this while they're in their own business?
00:20:31.414 --> 00:20:33.002
That's really not serving them.
00:20:33.403 --> 00:20:36.596
Okay and actually they got some relationship to each other.
00:20:36.596 --> 00:20:38.406
When you're in a tea profile you don't see.
00:20:38.406 --> 00:20:40.096
You're in that cross-functional meeting and it's your.
00:20:40.096 --> 00:20:41.565
You know your brainstorming.
00:20:41.565 --> 00:20:50.406
You're all touring around ideas, what could be done, and you are trying to do creative problem solving, come up with some ideas that don't be tested, et cetera, and let's just say that's the scenario.
00:20:50.406 --> 00:20:56.627
Someone throws out an idea maybe it's you, maybe someone else and all of a sudden everybody starts to get excited.
00:20:56.627 --> 00:21:01.228
They move forward and they lean forward and it's just a gem of an idea.
00:21:01.428 --> 00:21:03.051
That's called the hedonic response.
00:21:03.051 --> 00:21:08.732
There's different centers of the brain, but most of it is what we call the limbic part of the brain.
00:21:08.732 --> 00:21:11.567
The ancient brain is also called the reptile brain.
00:21:11.567 --> 00:21:13.211
It's the thing fight a flight.
00:21:13.211 --> 00:21:15.704
If someone goes to attack you, you're not expecting it.
00:21:15.704 --> 00:21:19.488
Naturally we'll either push away or run away right or fight back.
00:21:19.488 --> 00:21:20.894
That's that fight-or-flight response.
00:21:20.894 --> 00:21:23.144
You respond so quickly you don't even process it.
00:21:23.144 --> 00:21:28.383
It's a natural response and this is what the hedonic response can be in terms of pleasure centers.
00:21:28.383 --> 00:21:39.611
So, if it pleases you but you're not sure why, you haven't explored it all yet or whatever that you get, like a light bulb lights off in your head right or light it.
00:21:39.611 --> 00:21:44.211
Literally your brain starts glowing in these centers and that's called the hedonic response.
00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:54.692
When you see in a group that something that someone mentioned takes on and everybody starts sitting up and starts talking about it or grabbing onto it and suddenly maybe that would work.
00:21:54.692 --> 00:21:55.805
We can try it this way.
00:21:55.805 --> 00:21:57.673
Some people call it brainstorming.
00:21:57.673 --> 00:22:00.723
Remember that term brainstorming it's before brainstorming.
00:22:00.723 --> 00:22:13.087
You don't want to brainstorm every idea, you want to watch the hedonic response and when you start seeing it, no matter who the author of that was, share it and go with it, say okay, jim, I saw you light up.
00:22:13.087 --> 00:22:14.852
What were you thinking at that moment?
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But then, amy, you also smiled.
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